Runner's Training Tips: Training for a Mountain Marathon

Hey  there,

Firstly I will introduce myself, first time posting on any running site. My names Ricky I am originally from Northern Ireland but I am in England studying multimedia at Northumbria University. I play a whole load of sports and love off road and trail running, however don’t get to do much living in a city.

I’ve signed up for a ‘mountain marathon’ (http://www.mourne2day.com).  It’s a 2day (2person) team event in Northern Ireland with different levels of entry. My friend and I have entered the C class which involves 35km/21.7miles split over 2days – usually fairly evenly, the first day may be just a small bit longer. It involves orienteering/mountaineering (have both of these to a sufficient level) skills as well as the obvious fitness needed(working on).

I was initially following (a fairly pathetic) marathon training program in the thought that this would help me to get around the general level of fitness.  All in all it was too easy and bit rubbish so I have stopped doing this and just been making up my own program as I see fit. I am pretty good at doing this having played a multitude of sports and field hockey to premier league level.  I feel but would just like to see what people think here and see if possibly someone has done/doing something similar.

I think I’ve got a fairly sound level of fitness at the minute to build on I seen to be improving consistently. I’ve been running with a bag for the last few weeks, last night I did 6miles with the bag full of 2litres and stuffed full with clothes.

When doing hill training I would run to the hell 10mins and do 10-15mins hill running up and down as quick as possible then run back.

Most recent longest distance was 9miles (no bag) in 1hr 12 but that was a very casual and was supposed to be a ‘recovery run’ as I had ran 3 out of the 4days previously pretty hard.

5mile time with a bag – 35:25mins could do better that was after a few days running before (without bag - 33:25).

I don’t have a set routine I just work on what I feel I need to at any certain time.

I suppose my main question would be about recovery:
For example, last night I did 6mile run with bag and the next thing I want to do is sprint/interval/leg strengthening. Do I go for a recovery run today? If so how long/far. I find it hard to run slowly.
OR
do I not go for a recovery run today and just save my energy and beast it tomorrow?

 Is it better to run when still tired from previous run or leave it a day and be able to push yourself harder? I'm running around 4-5 times a week i think.

I don’t really know what I expect to get out of this, just some insight and suggestions would be cool

Planning to go for a 10miler on possibly sat or Sunday.

Sweet.

 Looking forward to some input!!

PS. Anyone read any books by Dean Karnazes? or possibly "Survival of the Fittest: Anatomy of Peak Physical Performance" or any other fell running ultra marathon books??

Hi Ricky - read everything rpetreccajr has said...then read it again. It's excellent advice will help you to improve overall endurance if followed.

So you've signed up for the Mourne 2 Day. excellent stuff!! I had considered doin this race with my mate but it falls on the same weekend I'm doing a trail run (London 2 Brighton) so had to give it a miss unfortunately.

As mentioned, one of the most important elements to improving endurance is spending time on your feet. Long and slow - increasing pace and always looking at your watch thinkin' you're "slacking" is an easy mistake to make and one I find myself making all the time.

I am exactly like you in that I don't have a set routine and just do a bit of what I fancy that day. I'm not against Training Plans and know that if I followed one - I would get faster..but that's not what it's about for me.

Another way to improve endurance is to get in what they call B2B (Back to back) runs. Initially for you (going from what you've said) this would be something in the realm of a 5miler and a 3.5miler over 2 days. As your running improves, this can be increased. The key to these back to back runs is that (if built on slowly and gradually) your body will be able to recover quicker and when you need them to, your legs will be able to carry you further with less chance of doing yourself in.  

Your body can only work with what you give it. So what you fuel your body with will have a major impact on how you perform and how well you recover. Proper diet and sleep as well as staying well hydrated are vital.

Hill training is gonna be pretty important for the Mournes - cause it is flippin' hilly up there. So doing hill runs with your kit will definately be beneficial as between the two of you, you'll be carrying tent, clothes, food etc. Always think smart. There isn't gonna be much point in running up a hill with a bag full of kit and being out of puff by the time you reach the top with like 9 hilly miles to go. Conserve your energy and walk if the situation calls for it. Just keep moving forward. 

As for Mr Karnazes - I have read his first book (Ultramarathon Man: Confessions of an all night runner) - actually, he's kinda to blame for me gettin into this malarky. I also have his dvd 50 Marathons 50 States 50 Days. I knew when I read about these 50 milers, 100 milers, 135miles through Death Valley that it was crazy...but I knew I wanted some of it:) 

I'm gonna enter the lottery for the Western States 100 next year as I meet their qualifying standards. It'd be totally amazing to run in the same race as the likes of Dean and Scott Jurek.

Let me know if there is anything more ya need sure Ricky and good luck in the Mournes:)

Hey Ricky,

I don't have near rpet or Graeme's experience, but I get to run up and down some hills where I live. Beasting your way up them is a good way to increase leg strength, but really it is almost entirely anaerobic training. You're not going to get through a marathon like that! (Well maybe Graeme does but he is superhuman :-)

Instead I would work on running the hills aerobically. What I do (with a HR monitor - get one!) is run at a low heart rate (maybe 70% of my max). When I get to a hill, I try not to let my HR increase. I take smaller steps and slow down, still running though.

When you first try this it is impossible, but after a few weeks practice you'll see it can be done. The feeling of running up a hill aerobically is fantastic - it's like the hill isn't there, and you could keep climbing forever. Basically, it flattens 'em out. So far I can manage this on a 1:10 gradient, which doesn't sound very steep, but without this aerobic ability a mile of 1:10 is a killer.

Anyway, so that's what I'd recommend. Lots of slow running, so slow it almost feels like you're not working out - "conversational pace". Miles and miles of it. Over hills. Of course this develops your stamina, which you'll need, but interestingly it also does really good things for your top end speed, too. Build from the base upwards!

Resting HR - I usually take mine last thing at night. It varies a bit, depending on stuff like previous workouts, but has been averaging 45bpm recently. Was down to 48bpm standing up last night, and 39bpm lying down. Pretty strange feeling when your heart doesn't beat for two seconds, but low resting HR is meant to be a good indicator of fitness.