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    • CommentAuthorFree MemberMSgherzi
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2008
     
    MSgherzi

    Hi, I'm going to run in my first Half-Marathon on February 1st in Huntington Beach, CA (Surf City 1/2 Marathon). I ran the distance for the second time on Saturday when I completed a 14 mile run in 2:13:41 and clocked 13.1 at somewhere around 2:05:00. My goal is to run this half marathon in under 2 hours. So I suppose I'm going to want to knock 10+ minutes off of my current time. My question is what should a week's worth of running include for me in order to do this? When I run anything more than 7 or 8 miles, I'm putting in 8:45-9:45 min. miles. I run anywhere from 25-40 miles per week. Also, I need good reliable web resources about half-marathons such as what to eat the morning of and the days before the race, tapering, etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

     

    Thanks in advance,

    Matthew

    • CommentAuthorFree Memberyeags
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2008
     
    yeags

    Hey Matthew-

    You asked a lot of questions in your post.  First, CONGRATS for going for a Half.  They are a lot of fun to run and race, not to mention a great challenge.  Second, you don't mention your racing experience...  is this your first race of any distance, or have you run others at shorter distances?  Typically, you'll run faster during a race than you do in training - especially on your long runs.  If your race is in February, and you are already running longer runs than your race distance, and you are running them close to your race pace - I don't think you set your goal time low enough.  I bet you'll do much better than you're targeting now.

     I believe that every run has a purpose during training.  First, your weekly mileage matters of course, but not nearly as much as what you do in those miles.  Your long run should be slower than your race pace - you are not trying to kill yourself here.  You are trying to get time on your feet - trying to teach your body what it feels like to run for 2 hours straight.  Second, if you want to get faster, there is no substitute for your local track.  To run fast, you need to run fast.  Doing some intervals and speed work on the track on a weekly basis will make you faster - immediately.  I would also do a tempo paced, medium distance run, or a hill workout during the week.  The tempo run should be at or around your goal pace.  This gives you 3 distinct runs in training - track for speed (teaching your muscles to run faster, use oxygen better, and getting your body used to extending itself).  The temp run teaches you to run at your goal pace for a distance or a period of time, and the long run teaches you to be on your feet for a longer time.  Add in a couple slower runs of your choice and you'll be good to go.

    I'd be careful of a couple of things: Don't run every run as fast as you can.  You're asking for injury or burn out.  Every run has a purpose.  Remember, you are training your body to run 13.1 miles.  You need to run some runs for speed, some for endurance, and some for race pace practice - keep them in perspective.  I would gradually increase your mileage - don't let it fluctuate up and down (the difference between 25 miles/ week and 40 miles/ week is significant).  I'd think 40 miles/ week is great for a half.  Finally, keep easy days easy, and be sure to rest - your body needs to rest to be able to recover and improve.

     As for the day of the race...  you're lucky.  You have 4 months to tinker with what works for you.  Your long runs are a dress rehersal.  If it works in training, it'll work in your race.  if it doesn't work in training, it is a good lesson learned.  Personally, I eat a bagel, a bananna, and a power bar a few hours before I run a race.  I have a very sensitive stomach, and that's just what works for me.  Also pay attention to what works best for you for fueling during the run with gels/ water/ sports drinks, etc.

    Tapering...  I taper about a week for a half.  I just reduce my mileage, cut out all cross training (to eliminate the risk of injury), and pay very close attention to my diet.  I want to be sure my body is healthy and injury free.  I want to be craving a run, and I want all the energy stored and ready to be used for the effort.  I may run 12 to 15 miles (all at my half marathon pace) over the 5 days leading up to the race, then take the last 2 off, and then go light it up on race day.

    Keep me posted on your progress. GOOD LUCK!!!

     yeags

     

    • CommentAuthorFree Membermoleigh13
    • CommentTimeOct 7th 2008
     
    moleigh13

    I was hoping that perhaps I can get in on this first time half marathon discussion.  I am actually hoping to do myfirst 1/2 marathon in aobut 3 weeks.  I have no idea what i am doing.  I have been running off and on for about a year.  Over the summer I ran(not well, but finished) a 10 mile race after not running at all for about a  month and a half, and sporatically for the month or 2 before that.  I have recently begun a pretty regular running schedule (about every other day).  Runs so far ranging about 4 to 8 miles.  Is it possible for me to get myself ready for a 13.1 mile run 3 weeks from now?  how many miles a week should I be running?  and how do I break that mileage up?  I am a total novice.

    Any guidance will be appriciated. 

    thanks

    Mona

    • CommentAuthorFree Memberkrizzo
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2008
     
    krizzo

    mona,

    first of all congrats on your 10 miler! in my opinion you can get ready for the half in three weeks but set realistic expectations like just finishing. also use walk breaks early and often as needed. that will keep your legs fresher longer and you will have energy toward the end of the half. as to the number of miles you should be running that really depends on you. my answer is the fewest possible to be successful at your race distance. that may be as few as 20-25 miles per week. and it will also reduce the chance of injury.

    there are some great free running resources out there go to halhigdon.com and  jeffgalloway.com have training programs from 5k to marathon.

     good luck and  happy running!

    • CommentAuthorFree Membermoleigh13
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2008
     
    moleigh13
    thanks so much for the info.  I will go check those out. 
  1.  
    cseverin821

    Hey Mona,

    I'm also going to run my first 1/2 marathon too! In fact, next Sunday the 19th in my hometown. I'm nervous,intimidated,anxious and excited at the same time. I've been training now for the last 8-9 weeks, increasing my mileage 1 mile a week. I've been running here and there and have entered a few 5k's and 12k's.

    It's amazing how addicting running could be. BEFORE my marriage, I ran daily...after, well didn't put myself first. SO, I decided to take back what I truly missed, now my husband feels he's losing me to running! ha

    Though, he's making an effort to run with me. I told him if you want to be with me, you need to start running.

    Anyway, I want to wish you good luck on your first!!Laughing

     

    Matthew,

    best of luck to you too for February for Surf City. I'm not a speed demon like yourself (oneday) but it looks like with all your hard work, you will do under 2hrs!

     

     

     

    • CommentAuthorFree Memberborntocry
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2008
     
    borntocry

    Dude, you will do it easily!!!  I ran my last half-marathon in under two hours, and I had done nowhere near as much training as you.  I think I did about six weeks of training and my longest run was around 10 miles, and never faster than around 9 minutes per mile.  If you've already done a 14 mile run and a 13.1 at 2:05 you will have no problem finishing the race in under two hours.  UNLESS you start too fast - don't underestimate how easy it is to get carried away by the excitement, especially when everyone around you is speeding by you, and especially if you taper the week before and have fresh legs and a lot of energy.  Stick to your plan!!

  2.  
    pilgrimporge

    Hi all

     

    Me and my partner, are looking to do a half, next october.  We are both fit, but not running for 2 hours fit!  I am built like a rugby player, so find consistent running difficult.

     

    Any training tips, diet tips would be very much appreciated.  We ran 2  miles yesterday and plan to do the same again tomorrow.

    please help!!!

     

    CJ 

     

    • CommentAuthorFree MemberMSgherzi
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2008
     
    MSgherzi

    yeags,

     

    Thanks for your wonderful advice.

     

    My race experience is that I've ran three 5ks and one 10k.

     

    I can't go to my local track just because it's about 20 min. away and I don't have the time to. What's the difference between using a track and running in the street though? I think 40 miles a week is sufficient as well. How long should my long runs be?

     

    Finally, I'm not sure what the difference is between a tempo run, speed work,  and intervals. Could you clear this up for me?

     

    Thanks again,

     

    Matt

     

    PS. Sorry for taking so long to respond, but I abandoned this thread because after 4 days I didn't get any responses.

    • CommentAuthorFree Memberdbikekc01
    • CommentTimeOct 13th 2008
     
    dbikekc01

    MSgherzi,

    Check out the info. at the site below.  It provides a breakdown of what a tempo run is, speed work, etc.

    http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/index.htm

    • CommentAuthorFree Membermoleigh13
    • CommentTimeOct 13th 2008
     
    moleigh13

    cseverin821

     Good luck to  you as well.  Do you have a time in mind?  I would like to break 2 hours.  That will take me laying myself totally out there and then 2 extra boosts!!!  We will see. 

     

    Hey Matt, will all this training time on your hands and already doing 14 mile runs, I won't be surprised when you abandon your first half for the big show. ; )

     

    • CommentAuthorFree Memberyeags
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2008
     
    yeags

    Matt-

     No problem running intervals (like laps on a track)on the street.  It might actually be better for you since your not always turning in the same direction.  You may want to drive the route you plan to run your intervals so you know the approximate distances, or you can just run them by time.  When I run intervals on the track (I am training for Marathon distance) I never do them for less than 400M with a 400M recovery, and I never do them longer than 1200M with a 400M recovery.  I vary the distances weekly, and keep track of each interval time to base future workouts on.  Doesn't matter where you run them, just stick with them and run more (per session) as they get easier for you. 

    A tempo run is really just a run that is anywhere from a couple miles to 7 or 8 or so at a pace that is faster than your goal Marathon pace (perhaps your half marathon pace) to as fast as your 10K pace.  It should feel comfortably hard.  This is kind of where you reap the benefits of your speed work.  When these get easier and/ or faster, you know the speed work is paying off.

    Since you have some time...  you may want to try this on your long runs.  I do it and love it.  I think it makes me stronger at the end of a race.  If you run a 13 miler, run the first 10 miles at your easy pace, then run the last 3 at your goal race pace.  As you get closer to your race, you can increase the miles you run at your goal pace.  I ran a half last May, and my longest traing run was 15 Miles for that race (I did 3 of those).  I think you can appreciate knowing that you CAN run the distance.  Doing the extra miles will be worth their weight in gold at the end of that race.

    One last thing on your training...  If you're running 40 Miles per week now, witha long run of 13 miles, that's a lot of miles not done on your long run (40 - 13 = 26.  on a 5 day schedule, that means 26 miles over 4 runs or 6.5 miles per run on average).  It might not be a bad idea for you to take an easy week once a month or so...  Not easy on pace - easy on miles.  Maybe run a week of 30 - 32 miles once a month so that you can give your body a rest.  Let it heal and recover.  That'll help it to grow stronger and faster.

      Since you've raced a few times, you probably understand what I meant when I said you'll run faster in races than you will in training.  With other people running faster than you, they'll pull you along for the ride.  With other people running slower than you, they"ll push you along.  Don't get caught up in the moment...  Pay attention to your race plan and your goal pace.  If you feel great and say "forget the plan", and start running too fast, you could be fine, or you could create a miserable second half of the race for yourself.  I would stick to your plan for 9 or 10 miles - see how you feel and then adjust if you want. 

     I hope all goes well for you.  Any more Q's - don't be shy. 

    • CommentAuthorFree MemberMSgherzi
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2008
     
    MSgherzi

    yeags,

    Thank you for all of your valuable information!  I can't tell you how frustrating it was to post on laces like RunnersWorld and receive 1 unhelpful response.

    I know you mentioned hill training as well. I've never attempted hill training and was wondering how that works.

    So I did a tempo run yesterday at 8.1 miles with about my 10k pace and felt like I could have gone forever even after I was done (1:03:56). So I think I've got the tempo running down. I will sound like a total newbie, but an interval/speed workout would be 400m at your target goal and 400m at your normal pace (recovery), or however long they become, right? How long would you normally do that for during a single workout (distance)? When I'm doing interval training, what am I looking for in terms of times completed and so forth?

    Thank again,

    Matthew

    • CommentAuthorFree Membersimias
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2008
     
    simias

    Matthew...i'm running that half too, so good luck!i heard it's a great run.

    i just ran my first half marathon last weekend (Long Beach) and that was a great experience! i finished at 2:17 which was way better than i expected because i haven't been training all that much and i'm approx 10lbs heavier than my normal weight of 170-175lbs this time of the year (i race outrigger canoes, but took this season off due to injuries).

    i'm glad that you started up this thread because the info that yeags has posted is great! so "THANKS, yeags!"

    i can honestly say that i am not a runner, i hated running, have never wanted to run, have never raced any distance, BUT after running the LB half (originally to give a little moral support for my wife and friends) i can say that i enjoy it now. especially knowing that i could've cut a few minutes off of my time last weekend had i known the course a little better. the last three miles i could've ran a lot faster, but didn't realize how quickly the finish would come because of all of the excitement during the last three miles, so i kind of took it easy to enjoy the scenary. once i realized that i was already at mile 12, i sprinted trying to make up some time, but it was too late.

    i'm gonna take the Surf City half a little more serious and really up my training using yeags advice.

    so thanks to all that posted on this thread!

    Chris

    • CommentAuthorFree MemberMSgherzi
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2008
     
    MSgherzi

    Chris,

    I'm glad I'm not the only one on here running that race! If you finished in 2:17 with little training and you're not even a runner, you should be able to blow your old record out of the water with training from here to then. Keep me posted on your progress.

     

    Matt

    • CommentAuthorFree Memberyeags
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2008
     
    yeags

    Chris-

     You're welcome.  I hope the info helps you out.  I have to tell you, though - you're in trouble.  Once you run a race and then say "I could have cut a few minutes off my time"...  you're hooked.  I know that feeling.  :) Seriously, congrats on the race.

     Matt-

     For me...  My 10K pace is my tempo pace. Personally, I think if you ran a tempo run and you felt like you could have gone all day, I don't think you ran it hard enough.  I think your 10K pace is too slow.  Take these numbers for what they are...  Here is what I try to run, so you can put this in perspective...  I ran a marathon a couple weeks ago in 3:24:19 (7:47 pace).  I crapped out at the end, and that is a little slower than my normal marathon pace.  7:30ish is the pace I feel I can run all day, and that is my usual marathon pace.  My half marathon pace is in the 7:20 - 7:25 range.  I generally run 10K's in 43:00 - 43:30 (6:55 - 7:00) and I am gassed at the end.  I try to run my tempo runs in this range.    So, for you...  I took your 2 hour Half marathon goal and plugged it into a pacing chart(found here http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/paces.php)  and came up with the following:

    a 2 hour half is a 9:09 mile

    the tempo pace for that is 8:57/ mile

     I really think you are selling yourself short.  I would structure your training more closely to the runs you are running now...  Here's why.  If you are running 8.1 miles at 1:03:56, that is in the 7:55 range, and if you really feel that you could have run all day at that pace, then that is the pace I might try to run your half.  Based on that, a 1:45 half is an 8:00 pace with a tempo run of 7:50.  I think that more closely represents your current level of fitness.  Check out the running for fitness site and plug in some of your runs and see how it plays out. 

    Don't be afraid to let yourself train a little harder if you are feeling good and if the training continues going well - readjust your goals.  Just because it's your first one doesn't mean that you can't run a great time!!!  :)

     yeags

    • CommentAuthorFree MemberMSgherzi
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2008 edited
     
    MSgherzi

    Thanks again yeags!

    I actually made a typo and I put 1:03:56 when I should have put down 1:06:56 instead. Either way, I've kind of decided what to do. I'm going to start my week with speed work one day, tempo the next, two regular runs at around 5-8 miles, and a long run at the end of the week at around anywhere from 13.1-15.1 miles with running a tempo when I have 3-4 miles remaining. I will also take off from running the day before and after my long run, just to prepare and recover. I ran an 11.1 mile run yesterday and took your advice and started a tempo run at around 8 miles and I felt like I finished stronger. I agree that my 10k pace is slower than it should be. I'll make my tempo runs faster next time. I think I went too slow just because I was afraid of wearing myself out too fast but wanted the run to remain comfortably hard.

    While running 8.1 miles in under 67 min. and a SLOW run of 11.1 miles in 1:39:28 allowed me to calculate that I could have easily done a half-marathon in under 2 hours, I think I'm on my way to running this thing faster than I expected. My real training begins tomorrow with a tempo run just until I can read up more on how far distance wise my total speed workout should be and what-not. I'll post up on this thread or make a new one if I have any trouble.

     

    Thanks again!

    Matthew

  3.  
    little-red-runner

    Hi!

    I have been running for about two years now (not continuously!!) and competed in my first events this autumn.  I did the running portion of a duathlon in london of 9.5k and then 4.5k getting in the first half at 37 mins, and then just a couple of weeks ago i did the staten island half marathon.  I, like you, fretted somewhat over my training, as i was running with some veteran eventers, but the best advice i can give you, is 'don't worry'!

    Whilst i'm training, I can get very overwhelmed by calculating my stats and then i get a little down on myself when i think i'm not keeping up.  I found that this was not helpful AT ALL during the actual event as you need to maintain an 'I Can Do This' attitude - the benefits of this to your mindset will be more important when you;re in the crowd and running than knowing what your time 'should' be.  All that really matters is that you head into to the event looking to enjoy it and a happy runner is a better runner, no matter what.  sorry if this all sounds little sappy, but i was just reading your story and felt like adding my comments.

    Eat well, get lots of rest in the days leading up to the event, and you'll be like a tiger when the gun goes off.

     

     

     

     

     

  4.  
    little-red-runner
    my half marathon time was 1 hour 36 minutes... yeags is right - just because its your first one doesn't mean you can't pull in a good time!
    • CommentAuthorFree Membermom4hats
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2008
     
    mom4hats
    Hi, Congrats!  I just finished my first half marathon Oct 5th, and I'm so hooked.  You definately need to taper beforehand.  I also recommend not "trying" anything new to your system on race day, experiment with your power bars etc... on your training days.  I saw way too many people try something new on race day to end up sick or with other issues.  I found that I was starving around 10 miles and really needed to fuel up better.  Your time looks great, most likely you'll get it under your 2 hour goal since your know you'll be racing and pushing yourself harder.  I was running on a injury....my mistake.... so I just wanted to finish.  Wish you well.
    • CommentAuthorFree Memberyeags
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2008
     
    yeags

    Hey Little Red!!!  Congrats!!!  What a great run!!!  It's tough to not get amped up by the crowd, isn't it?  They can help you along when you're hurting, or they can get you into trouble when you're fresh if you're not paying attention...

    Your Duathalon...  was that a duathalon relay?  SOunds very interesting and like a very good time.  Duathalons are on my radar screen - seems like a nice transition into triathlons.

    Mom4hats-  Congrats on your finsh too!!!  13.1 is a great accomplishment - especially if you were hurt and gutted it out anyway.  Do you have another one on your calendar yet??  Laughing

    What is everyone else training for now?  I'm working on the Disney Marathon on 1.11.09.  Hopefully it'll have a ticket to Boston at the finish line.

    • CommentAuthorFree Membersimias
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2008
     
    simias

    just got back from a short 3.2 mile run. i'm just working on dropping weight right now, so i'm not pushing the runs as hard as i should be. next run i'll probably bump it up to 5 miles and move up every week. i'm just trying to get back into paddling shape right now while my injury is healing, so this is a great way to cross train for both running and paddling.

    matt...just by reading your training sched right now, i know you'll kill that 2 hr mark by a lot.

    yeags...good luck on the Disney World Marathon!

    so yeah...the halves i plan to run are Surf City in Feb, San Francisco in July (to complete the California Dreamin' Series) and then Disneyland in Sep (if I'm not racing in Hawaii) and Long Beach again. i'll be racing outrigger canoes in between, so i'm trying to spread out the Half Marathons. 

    i'm glad that i found this website. so much good advice and support that it not only helps with my runs..it helps with my other activities. 

     

    • CommentAuthorFree MemberMSgherzi
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2008
     
    MSgherzi

    simias,

     

    I was reading the results from Surf City this year, the person all the way in the back at 500th place finished in 1:42:00! I wanted to finish in under 2 hours and I thought 1:45:00 would be a remarkable time, but I'm wondering if my goal should be higher than what I was thinking. I'm speculating on raising my expectations as this Surf City half marathon looks EXTREMELY competitive. 1st place was 1:03:00. :o

    • CommentAuthorFree Memberfetrows
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2008
     
    fetrows

    Matthew -

    I just finished my first half marathon a couple of weeks ago.  You may find that over the course of your training, your expectations of yourself get higher (you may lower that goal time as you get stronger and faster).  I used the 12 week training program posted on the Fleet Week Half Marathon site (actually there are two listed, one says its for novices, the other for intermediate runners).  Even though I consider myself a novice, I tried out the "intermediate" program, because the novice one seemed too easy as I got started. 

     Anyway, I didn't stick to the program to the letter, but it allows for variations.  Sometimes I'd run a race instead of a long run.  Sometimes I'd skip the track running.  But I kept with the "spirit" of the training program and it seemed to work.  It's at:   http://www.discovermwr.com/fleetweekhalf/training.html.  Also on that page are "100 tips" on running a half.  They include practical stuff ranging from motivation to clothes to nutrition to bandaids on the nipples for long runs. 

    I did my longest "long run" two weeks before the half and by then my pace was pretty solid, and did a "practice" race (10 miler) the week before the half.   The last two weeks I was tapering my in between training to short stuff no more than 5 miles.  The 10 mile race was great in that it helped me get my pre-race routine down, and helped with pacing despite the early race adrenaline flow.   I learned that for me, a pasta dinner the night before and a power bar and a quart of gatorade an hour before race time was great, but another  power bar 10 minutes before was not so effective.   Also, getting a race in will help you practice drinking on the run (you don't want your half to be the first time you've tried to grab a water cup and drink on the run).

     For your race, take a look at the number of entries.  If you're talking about thousands of people (which from your last post it looks like that's what it will be), be aware of where you'll be in the starting crowd.  Check to see if your race "seeds" you based on past race times.  A lower seeding may actually be helpful in that the crowd can force you to slow down the first mile or two.  If it's less crowded, be mindful of your initial pace and don't get carried away.  My half was just under 1000, so it was easy to get free of the crowd, and easy to go too fast in the beginning.

    Good luck.  Some days your training will be a grind, but in the end the sense of accomplishment will be very nice.   I'm still contemplating whether I'm crazy enought to try a full marathon next. 

    • CommentAuthorFree MemberMSgherzi
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2008
     
    MSgherzi

    fetrows,

     

    Thanks for the link.

    One thing I'm having a problem with is speed work. After my 800 meter repeat, am I supposed to rest by actually stopping, or slowing down my run? I was slowing down my run and I have to say that I could only go 2 miles with speeding up for 800 meters and then slowing down my run for half that time. This is a total newbie question, but I'm not big on speed work and am just starting to actually do it.

    • CommentAuthorFree Membersimias
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2008
     
    simias
    matthew...1:45 is a great time! esp. for a first timer and at the rate you're training you'll probably even beat that. not to mention that 500th place was out of 8000+ half marathon runners, so that's pretty good! LOL!
    • CommentAuthorFree Memberdbikekc01
    • CommentTimeNov 3rd 2008
     
    dbikekc01

    You guys are really amping up my interest in a local half next spring.  I'm new to running, so my gear and gear knowledge are VERY limited.  There has been alot of discussion about training at different paces.  The question I have is what are you using to measure your pace during your run?  I'm assuming you have some form of wrist-mounted device that gives you instant feedback on your pace, so as you adjust your pace during your run, you can tell when you are going too fast or too slow.  I know there is a theory out there that you can train yourself to know what pace you are running at, but that requires something to measure it against during that training process.  What is working for you?

    • CommentAuthorFree Memberyeags
    • CommentTimeNov 3rd 2008 edited
     
    yeags
    Hey Matthew-
    On your track workouts...  For your recovery, you can do a few things.  I recently read a article where someone suggested jogging/ walking a 400M lap at 3X your interval pace at that distance (1:30 for the interval, take 4:30 to recover).  I personally think that's way too long.  I try to take the recovery lap as a slow jog and I wear a heart rate monitor, so I jog until my heart rate drops back to about 120.  For me, a hard 800 will be about 3:00 or so, and my heart rate will get up into the mid 160's.  A slow jog around the track (about 2:30 or so) gets me back to the 120 range, then I go again.  I repeat until I feel like I need to get on my hands and knees on the infield of the track, and then I jog home with my tail between my legs.  Smile  Just kidding...  Spped workouts are the toughest for me.  I think I run them too hard, but the payoff is outstanding.  I feel better after a 20 miler than I do a 2 mile warm up/ 5X 1200M/ 2 mile Cool down - they just wipe me right out.  Hopefully they are easier for you than they are for me. 
    Oh yeah...  On track workouts.  When they start to get easy for you - you can either increase the number of reps, or decrease the time in between intervals.  Both oughta really boost your enjoyment of that training activity.  LOL  Also, I always vary the length of the interval in consecutive sessions...  In other words 1 track session per week, so over the course of a month, I may do 800's one week, then 1200's the next, 1000's the next, and then 200's the week after that, etc.  I don't allow my body to get good at any one distance - I'm not trying to train to run 800's - I'm training it to run faster.  Running these faster will make your regular runs easier at a faster pace, and it will certainly improve your race times.
    I hope this helps...
    yeags
    • CommentAuthorFree MemberMSgherzi
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2008 edited
     
    MSgherzi

    yeags,

    Sorry I can't message you. I'm not about to pay for a membership on here. :)

    Well I've found a method that kinda works for me. I use a treadmill for my tempo runs and my speed work runs. I do this so I can run exactly at one speed. I'm running my temp runs and speed workouts at about 5 miles each. What I am doing for speed work is running a fast 800 meter and running a recovery jog for 400 meters. I continue that and at about 3.50-4 miles I'm pretty gassed, so 5 miles suits me pretty well. Do you think this is a good method for intervals/speed work? I'm going faster than what that website calculated me to go at. It said a 1:45:00 half-marathon is about a 7:49 min mile for 800 meters, but, I think if I remember, I'm doing about a 6:53-7:20 min. mile.

    I also ran a 15.1 mile long run on a treadmill on Saturday in which I ran 13.1 miles in 1:52:10(not including the 1 minute break or so I took at 12.1 miles to pee and drink), and 14 miles at just under or around 2 hours. I'm not exactly getting 40 miles a week, though. I'm getting anywhere from 34-37. I'm not sure how that'll play out but with my schedule it's hard to run 5 days a week.

     

    Matt

    • CommentAuthorFree Memberyeags
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2008
     
    yeags

    Just a couple of quick things...

     I'm not a big fan of treadmills, but they are pretty convenient.  I know it is easier to run on a treadmill than outside since there is no wind resistance (don't underestimate that).  However, if you are running hard and you're tired at the end - then mission accomplished!!  As for times on the treadmill, I can't really comment since I never do them that way.  My guess is that if you run them faster than what the charts say (like you are), then it sounds like you are doing the right thing.  Just don't get too hung up on the time, or use them to base projected race times, etc...  it's enough different that it will not give you a perfect representation.  Good for a workout when you can't get outside, though.  :)

     As for your long run...  Same deal with the intervals.  It's hard to gauge exactly where you are based on the treadmill factor, BUT...  you are in pretty darn good shape, my friend!!  I think your 1:45:00 goal is very reasonable.  I'd base the rest of your training on that goal.  As you get closer to race day, you'll have a better feel, but I think that's pretty good.

    35 miles per week is fine for a half, especially considering that one of your runs is 5 miles (your intervals) and you are killing yourself on that day.  Those are hard miles.  I think your right on track, and it would be tough to find ways to nitpick your training.

    Question for you...  are you training with gels/ sport beans/ etc. on your long run?  If not, you may want to try it.  It may help you keep your energy level up throughout the run.  Might be a helper for you come race day.  Personally, I use them on long runs and races and find them to be a great boost.  Let me know if you have any questions about these...

    yeags

     

    • CommentAuthorFree MemberMSgherzi
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2008
     
    MSgherzi

    yeags,

    Two of my runs are 5 miles. My tempo and interval run. It looks like I may only get 30 or 31 miles this week, unfortunately.

    As far as sports gels are concerned, I've never used them. I personally don't understand how people can take those in while running. Aren't they hard on your stomach? I don't even drink a single drop of water on any of my runs, even if they are 15 miles(hence the reason I always need to stop on a 13.1+ mile run at around 9 or 10 miles to drink and pee) because I've noticed it'll give me gas and it upsets my stomach while I run. But if it helps, yes, I'd like to try that.

    I'm personally only using a treadmill at the moment because I can't measure my exact pace during a run on the street or anywhere else. At least on a treadmill I know that if I am running 8.6 mph and it says 6:58 then it's probably around 6:58, give or take 10-15 seconds. So right now it's not because it's cold outside or anything, but it's to measure the exact pace and time. I haven't ran in the street in almost two weeks. My 8 mile run tomorrow outside should be fun. :)

    Thanks again,

    Matt

    • CommentAuthorFree MemberG-feet
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2008
     
    G-feet

    Hi there fellow Half Marathoners: 

    just read lots of great training advice for running 13.1 miles. I finished my first 1/2 back in September and did most of my training in about four weeks.  It consisted of three main runs in the week with lighter shorter runs 2 other days in the week. the schedule was 8miles, 10 miles, 12 miles week 1 then up every thing by 2 miles in week 2 and up again by 2 miles each run in week 3. the shorter runs consisted of a day at the track running 6 X 800 intervals with 400 recovery and a day of easy running around 8 to 10 km with students in our running clinic.

     I thought I could run a 1:46 1/2 before the race based on my training times but blew that away by finishing the last 1.1km in under 5 min. and scored a 1:42 in the Half. The running clinic gaduates are all now training for the country Music Half in Nashville in april and my next goal is trying the full with hopes and sights on Boston for 2010. G-Feet 

    • CommentAuthorFree Membertranquil21
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2008
     
    tranquil21

    Hey....awesome posts guys!  i plan to do my first half in nyc in either jan or feb.  For now, im gearing up for a 15k on Nov. 30th.  There have been some great training posts made on here..thanks for that!

    I started running on Sept 3 of this year.  Ive done a 5k and a 10k so far.  now the 15k is coming up..then the half.  Im having trouble understanding paces and how to get them down.  The 5k, i ran 8:52 pace...but that was also in Sept.  For the 10k, I ran 8:40 pace.  I broke double digits for the first time this past friday and ran 10.5 miles at 10 minute pace.  i'm not sure how I should gauge my pace and tempo runs based on all that because it's all over the place.  I would LOVE to do the 15k in 1:20-1:25...(8:37-9:07 pace)  but im not sure if that is realistic or not.  I've improved a great deal in two months..but i don't know how to vary paces from one race to the next.  Should I maybe run a 5k or 10k in training..at a race pace to find out what my "new" pace would be?  

    Also, in regards to gels...like Mathew said..I am a little afraid to take them as well.  I hate the thought of gearing up for a nice long run only to be "ruined" by an upset stomach....also, i haven't been drinking water during a run either.  I can't stop running or else it seems near impossible to start again..and I haven't mastered the skill of running and drinking.......any advice?

     

    • CommentAuthorHero!!rrishch
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2008
     
    rrishch

    With regard to running and drinking . . .

    I have used a Camelback FlashFlo with great results for over five years.  It holds 45 oz of liquid, I use water on my weekday runs and watered-down gatorade on my long run.  Never a problem with spills, like using a bottle.  Also has pockets for ID, money, keys, etc. 

    Only two (small) problems with this system

    1. It's tough to keep the bladder completely clean inside unless you are super dilligent about it buying the kits/tablets and scrub-a-dub-dubbing.

    2. Liquid in the drinking tube will freeze if clipped around your waist in the dead of winter.  I usually put it up my sleeve and into my glove to keep it "ice-free".

     I highly recommend having some portable hydration capability as your distance and pace increase.

     Here's a link to Camelback  http://www.camelbak.com/index.cfm

    Rob

    • CommentAuthorFree MemberCatherine
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2008
     
    Catherine

    That's how I felt before I decided to stop and drink, and tried the gel. It worked perfectly... you can stop every 2 or 3 miles if it's not for more than 30 sec!

    I thought I would have an upset stomack but not at all. You can try and if you don't like it, there are the jelly beans or Cliff shot.

    Good luck

  5.  
    GumpRunningCo.

    i'm running my first half next month.

    how long should i take to recover after my first half marathon?
    any advice for a dude with raw nipples? i've tried band aids and vaseline, but don't work that well.

    • CommentAuthorFree Memberyeags
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2008
     
    yeags

    On Hydration...

     I drink before I go out, and then I don't genrally drink anything else on a run 8 miles or shorter (an hour or less for me), but on runs longer than that (up to 14 miles or so), I will carry fluid with me - and maybe a gel too.  On my long runs, I mimic my marathon race procedure...  1 gel before I start, then an electrolyte replacement drink (I use Clif) at miles 2 and 4, then a gel with water at mile 6.  I repeat this cycle until I'm done running.  I may modify a little depending on the distance.

     For a half, I generally take in 1 gel  before the start, and another at about halfway.  I always take them with water, and I don't generally stop for more water on a run of this distance.

    For these longer training runs and races, your performance WILL suffer if you don't rehydrate.  You body needs certain things during exercise, and you HAVE to replace them.  A gel is basically a concentrated sports drink, but they need to be taken with water.  They can be taken every 30 - 60 minutes depending on the intensity of the exercise.  The best thing to do is to try them and see what works for you.  I have a very sensitive stomach, so I had to really tinker to find a system that works for me.  For example, caffeine is a no, no for me, and all the sugars in Gatorade coupled with the gels are also a no, no for me.  Personally, I hate the feeling of taking a gel, and I have issues getting the package open with sweaty fingers, so I pre-mix them with water in a water bottle on my fuel belt that I carry with me.  I can drink this on the run, it's easier to swallow, and it doesn't seem to taste as bad (to me).  I carry 3 bottles on my belt when I run - 1 electrolye replacement, 1 water, and 1 gel/ water mix.  it works for me...

    On Half recovery...  They say 1 day for each mile you race.  I think it depends on your level of fitness.  I try to shoot for about half of that.  For a half, I'll take about a week.  I'll do some light running on starting Wednesday or Thursday following the race, and then ease back into training the next week with a lighter than normal week, and a full week the following week.

    On your nipple problem...  I use band aids.  I use big ones.  I can run 14 - 16 miles without any band aids with no problems, but after that they will start to bother me.   They always seem to fall off during a marathon, but if I can keep them covered through 18 or 20 miles I'll be OK.  If you have to cover them for a half, yours must be pretty sensitive.  I'd try big band aids and some midical tape - that stuff never comes off when it gets wet..

     Good Luck everyone!!

    yeags 

    • CommentAuthorFree Memberkhutton
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2008 edited
     
    khutton

    On hydration and gels....I think is it absolutely neccesary to find what works best for each person but I also think it is absolutely neccesary to fuel your body if you are running over an hour with water/gels/sports drinks.

    I just ran my first half in October, a 10 miler and some short races before that, I am training for Boston Marathon in April with another 10 miler and 1/2 Marathon in between.

    I started taking gels when training for my 10 miler on the advice of a seasoned runner at a running specialty store. He explained that your body needs nourishment, electrolytes etc when running anything more than an hour. It also helps with how your body recovers and heals from a long run.

    I began by following the directions on the back of the GU I bought. 1 Gel 15 minutes before running, and then every 45 minutes along the way. I only take another gel if I have at least another 30 minutes left. I hate carrying water with me, so I do a 5 mile loop and leave a water bottle hidden at the end of my street. In a race, you don't have to worry about that, which is nice. I also like to eat a piece of whole wheat bread with peanut butter about 15-20 minutes before I run and drink some G2 Gatorade.

    During the half marathon, I had a GU 15 before, 45 minutes in and 90 minutes in, I alternated between water and gatorade at each aid station.  That seemed to work for me.

    I am not sure why people think you need to stop for minutes at a time to drink or take a gel, get a squirt waterbottle and in a race, bend you paper cup in half, sometimes you spill some on yourself, but oh well.

    Like I said, this works for me, I don't have a super sensitive stomach and I found that the gels really seem to work, even if it is just in my head! 

     

    • CommentAuthorFree Membercpreston
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2008
     
    cpreston

    Pilgrim-

    Like you I am built for power not speed (5'9" 225) but Ijust did my first 1/2 about a month ago.  Up until the week before the race, my longest run had been about 8 miles. The week before I did a 2 hour run. I was less worries about distance and foucsed on running for 2 hours straight.  Like most in the post have said I tapered the week before and ate well.  The day of the race it was 20 degrees hotter than normal so hydration was key. I made a point to run slow the first 5 miles and hysdrated at every stop.  I really only felt bad in the last mile and half. The heat was knocking people out left and right so my guess is that it was getting to me too.

    One training tip that worked for me was to keep my running longer but limit the number of times I run a week.  By only running twice but keeping the runs long and slow, it gave my body an extra day to rest.  My body aches less and I have not gotten burned out like I have in the past. I'd be intersted to know how others think about that strategy.

     Good luck!

    • CommentAuthorFree MemberMSgherzi
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2008
     
    MSgherzi

    Hey,

    Thanks for all of the great advice! I never imagined that this thread would grow to be so large and full of so much useful information. Anyway, I tried putting a water bottle in the street once before I ran. On my way back, someone had apparently stole it. That's right, it was gone. So I figured since people who live around me were actually paying attention to me before I ran, I wouldn't do that again. Anyone can come by and throw something in your bottle and run off, or steal it again. I don't want to use hydration/fuel belts because, in my opinion, they look really goofy. But oh well, I'll have to suck it up probably. I never ever ever hydrate or drink anything in the middle of my runs, so I need to find a place to buy sports gels at. Since I can mix it in water, that'll help me probably. I'll need to tinker with my sensitive stomach.

    I have a concern, however. Upon looking at the running chart for my Half-Marathon in February I noticed that it goes uphill 6% for an entire mile. I'm wondering if I should be somehow prepared for that? I've ran hills out on my route in the past, but I doubt they are 6% or an entire mile. The chart is here:

    http://www.runsurfcity.com/Assets/Course/2008+Half+Marathon+Elevation.pdf

    While I'm training for speed and distance at the moment, I'm wondering if I should throw in a hill workout. If this is the case, I have no idea how to train for hills. The funny thing is that after that mile where it goes up, it looks like it goes downhill for 3 straight miles. Nice recovery. ;)

     

    Matt

    • CommentAuthorFree Membernodnarb13
    • CommentTimeNov 11th 2008
     
    nodnarb13
    Reading you guys' posts has been useful and is getting me pretty pumped for my first half on Thanksgiving in Atlanta. However, I hit a little speed bump and am looking for a little advice... I have been training, following a weekly schedule for about 8 weeks now. Increasing 1 mile a week on my long runs, Ive gotten up to 11 miles at a little over 8:30/mi pace and feel like I could finish the half at the end of those runs. I really want to finish in under 2 hours. That being said I did something to my ankle while playing basketball recently. Ive been icing but its been very sore. I tried running my long run today on it, although i feel like i still could have finished it, i decided not to push it and cut it short. I was wondering if anyone had any advice on how to approach these next two weeks of training before the race given this little ailment?
    • CommentAuthorFree Memberyeags
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2008
     
    yeags

    Matt-

    Looks like that hill goes up 50 to 60 feet over the course of a mile.  Yes, you'll be able to recover on the back side of it, but...  Running downhill works parts of your legs differently than running up hill and on the flats.  If it were me, I'd see if you can find a local route that has a hill about like that, and run it once a week or so.  Plan your route so that you get to that hill at the 3 mile mark - like the race.  It wouldn't hurt you to pick up the pace on the way UP the hill either.  Try to run a fast mile going up, that will make your race seem easy.  Run some repeats on it.  They'll do you good, and running down the other side will be good for you too.  You'll be blowing by people in your race, and feeling great coming over the other side.

    I ran a marathon in October, and there was a 75 foot hill over about a half mile 5 miles into the race.  I found a similar hill around here, and ran it a couple times a week for a couple months leading up to the race.  Still, I was concerned about the hill.  When I got to it, I tried to ease up a little and just get through it.  I ended up flying up it, and it turned out that the hill I was running in training was tougher than the one in the race.  Preparation was key.

     Hills will make you stronger.  I try to do them once a week.  It's a tough workout, but well worth the effort.

    Back to the gels/ hydration...  Remember that gels take extra fluid for your body to process, so if you mix them with water in a bottle, you probably need to drink more plain water after taking the gel/water mix.

     

    nodnarb13-

    How bad is the ankle?You won't lose enough fitness at this point to worry about finishing the race, and a long taper might do you good if you've been training hard over the last few months.  I think I'd probably cut the miles back, but NOT the intensity if you are able.  In other words, start running some shorter runs at your half marathon race pace.  An 8:30 pace will get you into the house in a little over 1:51:00, and based on your recent times, no reason to think you couldn't pull that off.  I'd start to run 4 or 5 mile runs at your half marathon pace. See if you can do it without a watch...  Take an easy 1 mile warm up, then run 4 miles in 34:00, and another easy mile to cool down.  Try that once or twice and then try 5 miles.  No long run this weekend (or next) - maybe 8 or so this weekend, then resume the faster paced running (if you can), through next week.  After next week, I'd taper back further and either run light on Tuesday (short, but at HM pace) or take the day off, take Wednesday off, and then go knock 'em dead on Thursday.

    If you feel ANY pain, I'd knock off the work out...  The last thing you want is to do more damage.  Just rest it and ice it...

     yeags

  6.  
    rpetreccajr
    Matt - FYI a 6% grade for a mile would be a climb of 316.8 feet. Since the course elevation chart shows you never break 100 feet above sea level, you aren't climbing that much. If the chart is correct in where the slope starts anc stops you are looking at something more like a 1% grade for a mile. You may not even notice it.
    • CommentAuthorFree MemberMSgherzi
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2008
     
    MSgherzi

    rpetreccajr,

     

    Their website says the following:

    • Highest point is less than 100' above sea level
    • Steepest course grade is approximately 6%
    Now does this mean that the very tip of the climb is 6%? I'm not sure. I've never been a Math expert, so you'll have to excuse me. I'm just going by what their website states.

    http://www.runsurfcity.com/
    • CommentAuthorFree Memberphampants
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2008
     
    phampants
    Half Marathon runners who make it fun:  http://www.youtube.com/adorunrun
  7.  
    rpetreccajr
    Matt - a 6% grade means that the course goes up 6 feet over the course of 100 feet horizontally. That is fairly steep for vehicles. On a long 6% downslope on a highway there would be signs warning truckers of a steep descent. For people on foot, not so much unless it drags on for a long ways. To visualize it get a yardstick and raise one end 2.16 (about 2 and 1/6) inches. That is a 6% slope. By comparison each step in the stairs in my house rises about 6 inches and is about 10 inches deep, that is a 60% slope. My guess is the steepest part of the slope will be in the middle of a hill. In fact, since you will be going up hill away from the ocean, my guess is the course will crose several streets and there will therefore be "flat" stretches of 50 or so feet at several points on the hill with steeper parts between. If you live close enough, cruise on over to Huntington Beach and run up Seapoint from the Pacific Coast Highway to the park and back. Per the race course description that is the hill. Like yeags said, running hills will make you stronger and give you confidence for the race itself. Find a hill near you and make it's acquaintance.
    • CommentAuthorFree MemberMSgherzi
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2008 edited
     
    MSgherzi

    rpetreccajr,

    Thanks! That totally makes sense. I'm probably over exaggerating the hill. It just looks steep when you don't look at the numbers on that chart. :)

     

    Quick Update,

    My current training is this: Sunday: Rest - Monday: 5.10 tempo run on a treadmill at about 8 mph/7:20-7:30 min. mile - Tuesday: Speed Work/Interval run on a treadmill 800 meter repeats (7 mph for .25 and 8.6 for .50). At 3.75 miles I take a 800 meter recovery run instead of 400 and I run 1200 meters at 8.6 from 4.25 to 5.10 - Wednesday:  8.10 mile easier run in the street. I recently decided to take a different route that takes me up the opposite side(harder side) of a hill and am trying to speed up that hill to work on my climbing - Thursday: The same thing as Wednesday except I'm usually slower because I'm tired from the week - Friday: Rest - Saturday: 14.1-15.1 mile long run in the street. I usually stop at least once at around mile 9 at a park/lake to pee and drink. 40 miles per week total.

    Thanks again, everyone!

    Matt

    My MapMyRun Training Log